Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout01132000 Min , · · · CITY OF PORT TOWNSEND PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES Workshop Meeting January 13, 2000 1. Call to Order The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m. in the Council Chambers of City Hall by Chair Cindy Thayer. II. Roll Call Members in attendance were Chair Cindy Thayer, Karen Erickson, Larry Harbison, Len Mandelbaum, Christine Ota and ex officio member Nik Worden. Staff members present were BCD Director Jeff Randall and City Manager David Timmons, and City Council members present were Forrest Rambo, GeoffMasci, and Joe Finnie. m. Acceptance of Agenda Motion to accept the agenda was made by Len Mandelbaum and seconded by Larry Harbison. All were in favor. IV. Approval of Minutes There was a unanimous vote in favor of approving the minutes of the November 10, 1999 continued session of the October 28, 1999 meeting as written and amended. V. Unfinished Business - There was none. VI New Business Chair Thayer spoke of the invitation to the City Council Members regarding communication between the City Council and the Planning Commission. Mr. Mandelbaum asked that also discuss the larger questions of the role of the Planning Commission in the early part of this millenium, issues they are confused about with their own role, things happening that are different all over~ change in the department He said it is important they evaluate their role in the context of what is happening in the region and public changes that are occurring. He hoped to touch on some of those, even if they didn't resolve them at this meeting. Chair Thayer raised issues: Planning Commission Minutes January 13, 2000 Page 2 ·e A. Shortage of Planning Commission Members 1. Shortage of one member for over 6 months (Lois Sherwood's position) 2. Position expired in December (Nik Worden's position) Ms. Thayer said she talked to Mr. Rambo approximately 1-1/2 months before the end of the year to discuss Mr. Worden's reappointment and heard nothing except for some indication that there may be a problem with the City Council concerning Mr. Worden because of a conflict of interest. Ms. Thayer pointed out that Mr. Worden has been a valuable member of the Planning Commission, even though he has not been on the Commission for a long duration, but he brings some experience that the rest of the Commission does not have. She said he is a real voice of reason on the Planning Commission, and she thinks she speaks for all of the Commissioners in feeling that they would really like to see him be reappointed. She stated that if it is just a matter of Council priorities, that they haven't gotten to it yet, they would like to know what is happening. Ms. Thayer said that if Mr. Worden is not reappointed, they are down two Planning Commission members, and she explained that the Planning Commission works most effectively with seven members; if they are down to five, it makes it a lot harder to make decisions. She asked to open that discussion first. e Mr. Mandelbaum asked regarding Mr. Worden's possible conflict of interest. Ms. Thayer replied she first heard from a Commission member that since Mr. Worden was working with the County that might be a conflict, but because what Mr. Worden is doing with the County is different, she did not see it as a conflict. Mr. Rambo replied that when Ms. Thayer asked about Mr. Worden's reappointment in October or early November he had no problem, and still has no problem with Mr. Worden continuing on the Planning Commission. There are other members of the City Council who feel because Mr. Worden is an employee of the County, there is some question as to where his allegiance would lie. Mr. Rambo stated he knows Mr. Worden's background, has read his resume and has had lengthly discussions about his background and interests, and he is totally comfortable with Mr. Worden being on the Planning Commission. There are four other members on the City Council, a majority, who don't see it that way. They are still grappling with the issue, and that is why there has not been an answer. He said he realizes it has been unfair to Mr. Worden~ he apologized and indicated they need to resolve the issue. Mr. Finnie said it is his understanding that the sitting Mayor, not the Council, nominates members to commissions. He noted that the Council is in a time of change since Mr. Rambo . -' Planning Commission Minutes January 13,2000 . Page 3 had stepped down as Mayor. Mr. Rambo and Mr. Finnie pointed out that withthe first City Council meeting in February there would be a new sitting mayor. Mr. Rambo said he had to take responsibility for not filling Ms. Sherwood's position because the Council has been so busy with other things. He said he had felt the Commission was functioning well, that he hasn't seen any standout candidates come forward for that position until recently, and he was and is still very comfortable with the composition of the Planning Commission at this time. Although the Commission might not have been whole in the last year, he has not seen it as a major problem. Chair Thayer explained that it has been an issue in meetings before that when they are short Commissioners one of their real concerns is getting a quolUIÌl. It is difficult for the Commission, especially when they get down to five members. . Mr. Masci said it is a matter of getting around to it and having ¡l body of volunteers. He said it is his understanding a Commission member can serve beyond the expiration of the term, unless otherwise over appointed or reappointed. Ms. Thayer said that is not her impression, that their term expires and they need to be reappointed. Mr. Rambo noted that Mr. Worden is in rather a gray No Man's Land, and he again apologized. Mr. Worden replied that the most uncomfortable thing for him was simply not doing anything; understandably, you are having difficulties with moving forward, but it would have been helpful having an explanation of that sometime in November or December. Mr. Mandelbaum expressed concern about the specific issue and said he is curious about the conflict issue process. He asked if that would be referred to the new City Attorney. Mr. Rambo was unable to answer and said he would have to ask those people for whom it would be a problem. How it gets processed it is not so much whether there is an actual conflict of interest, but a perceived conflict because of an employment situation. He said his argument to that would be if you had somebody who was on the· Arts Commission who also was involved with an arts position for the County, would that be a conflict of interest or would it be a benefit because you have the skills and interest; would it be a benefit because you have the skills and experience and a synergy that happens there? He said he sees it as a benefit, as a plus. Ms. Thayer said she looks at that as being no different than her being a realtor. When she came on the Planning Commission she was questioned about whether she would have the ability to be fair~ she looked at it as bringing expertise to the Planning Commission. She said she does not think that up until the last issue there has ever been a question of whether there was a conflict in the decisions she made. She said it is entirely the Council's decision -- it is just important for the Commission to know what is going on. . Planning Commission Minutes January 13,2000 Page 4 · Mr. Finnie said he sat on this Planning Commission for approximately 3 months and knows how hard it is to get qualified people. He knows Mr. Worden's qualifications and will encourage this Council and recommend to the new mayor that we discuss this supposed conflict of interest. He said more importantly next Tuesday they are probably going to designate the new Mayor, and maybe it is appropriate after that meeting for Commission members and anybody who wants to sit in to talk about this matter and communicate back to the Planning Commission what our time lines åre to make these decisions, so that we don't keep you in suspense on anything. Ms. Thayer said they would appreciate that. B. The Port issue. Chair Thayer noted the rough decision the Planning Commission and City Council had just gone through with the Port issue. She pointed out she was very concerned as to how the process went. She knew she was very close to issue, but other Commission members contacted her who were also concerned about the process (not the City Council's decision). In the discussion that followed Ms. Thayer expressed concern that there was no real discussion at the City Council in front of the public concerning the Planning Commision decision, how they came to it, and why the Council was going in a different direction. It appeared to many Commission members that all the those decisions were made behind the scenes, and they did not look at that as being a true public process. · Mr. Rambo responded that one thing they are trying to accomplish as a new City Council is to do the City's business in a timely way. In terms of public process and what is available for the public to review, packets and other materials are made available for public inspection and anyone is allowed and encouraged to come and look at the recommendations from the Planning Commission. He said to go back over those in a Council meeting does not seem to be good use of the Council's time. The information comes forward to the Council with a summary sheet. They have the material, review it, take issue on parts~ but there is not a lengthy presentation of the recommendation because it is a business meeting. Chair Thayer said it was her understanding the City Council did not publicly review the Planning Commission recommendations. Mr. Masci responded as the City Councilliasion to the Planning Commission that Mr. Randall made a terrific presentation of the Planning Commission deliberations. Mr. Masci said he affirmed what Mr. Randall said because as liasion he had sat through all of those deliberations. He pointed out the Planning Commission held their public hearings on the issue, and the City Council also held hearings so they would have more public · Planning Commission Minutes January 13, 2000 Page 5 · process. He said as a Council they read Mr. Randall's presentation over and over again~ they received and read all of the information the Planning Commission generated, and then Mr. Randall representated it in summarized form. Ms. Thayer agreed that Mr. Randall presented the material well, but said there was no discussion by the Council of why the Planning Commission recommendations were not agreeable to the City Council. She said that has usually been the case with City Councils before; they may disagree, but at least discuss it. Mr. Masci noted that when the government changed, roles changed slightly; they were told through two city managers they are to get the City's business done, that they are trying to be efficient and get the business done. He noted with the recent Port height issue the Planning Commission had public hearings, and the City Council had public hearings. Only one public hearing was required by law, so there was more discussion, and the community was discussing it too. · Mr. Worden referred to Comprehensive Plan amendments and said the Planning Commission is constrained that they cannot make a recommendation to change the Comprehensive Plan without some very specific fmdings. Often those recommendations are prepared by Staff, but they read them into the record as a part of the Planning Commission minutes. He said he feels constrained to do that with virtually every issue that comes before the Planning Commission, not just simply to make a decision but to state what they have learned from the process and what the conclusions are from it, at least individually before they take a vote on it. He said in the case of the Port height limit, they went to great lengths to do that; there were a number of issues brought up and they each took different positions that resulted in their recommendation. When it came to City Council there were no findings, there were no conclusions; it was just a vote. Mr. Worden said if the intent was to simply endorse something the Planing Commission had already done, you found the process adequate, you think the issues are correctly raised and have nothing further to say, that would be fine. You went a different direction without addressing the issues raised in the Planning Commission. Mr. Finnie explained the City Council sent the Port issue back with instructions to look at their proposal~ they took them to BCD and the City Manager, and they worked on a formula plan. He said the new Council and City Manager structure came out pretty differently than it would have a year ago. When it came back, what Mr. Randall presented was a modification of the original recommendation that came out of the Planning Commission hearings. He thought it was true they did not see the seven Council members have a lengty debate on the fmdings of fact and recommendations of the Planning Commission or take exceptions with them and tell why. There was intensive discussion within the administration and their mathematical formula was presented as a compromise brought forward to the Council. He felt there was adequate discussion by the Council. · Planning Commission Minutes January 13, 2000 Page 6 . Mr. Rambo noted that weighty matters take a lot of time, and one of the reasons they have a Planning Commission is because these are weighty matters, things that take a lot of time and energy. They are opportunities for people to provide input. He said the idea is for the Planning Commission to tackle these things and make a recommendation, and for City Council to review that, make a decision based on that information and add into the equation what individual members think is in the best interest of the community. He said they felt there were some issues that went beyond the Planning Commission's recommendation that were outside the purview of the Planning Commission, and it would have served no purpose to have a lengthy discussion about that at a Council meeting. Mr. Mandelbaum said he felt the Planning Commission spends a considerable amount of time hearing testimony that is sometimes redundant, and they spend too little time deliberating and debating among themselves. It is a real question for both institutions, because unlike other political decisions made by the Council, this has almost a judicial characteristic because we are interpreting a Plan. It isn't a matter of how much money you allocate for recommendations; both institutions have to interpret a document and somehow rationalize a decision in terms of that. He tended to agree with Mr. Worden, and said he thinks both institutions can spend a little more time making it clear exactly about the Plan that directs a particular conclusion. Mr. Masci indicated the more deliberative function, more dialog, more public hearing and rationalizing is the nature of the Planning Commission - to get those things out to be discussed. The nature of City Council is to make decisions. Once the deliberatve record is presented to the Council, if we do our homework, and based on the record we have received from you and from other commissions, Staff reports, etc., we make our decisions. He said when we come to Council meetings, based on our agenda when an item comes up, we are prepared to make a decision. In a lot of instances the deliberation has already gone on. In a case where it hasn't, Mr. Rambo has added into the Council rules dialog on individual items. Mr. Masci noted he said in public, that it is on the tapes, the Port height was the hardest thing he did, because he went through the process from the time they submitted their request and sat here with the Planning Commission and listened . Ms. Thayer cómmented that Mr. Masci's was the only comment, and it was in response to public testimony. She said she agreed with Mr. Mandelbaum, both groups need to be more sensitive to the public in issues that are so volatile. Future Direction for the Planning Commission: Mr. Masci referred to earlier conversation with Messers. Worden and Mandelbaum regarding the role and duties of the Planning Commission; they had their ideas of what they e ,. . Planning Commission Minutes January 13, 2000 Page 7 . perceived of as a possible goal. He said the dialog the three of them had caused him to do considerable thinking. Since the change in government, this particular Planning Commission is straddling two different types of government -- two different regimes, two different types of administration. The "new world," new type is CouncillManager. The previous Council made a commitment to move toward a Hearings Examiner, but that hasn't fully happened. He indicated in study sessions this past year, the Council discussed and agreed that 100 percent of the hearings should be done by the Hearings Examiner, removing the quasi-judicial function, which is probably the most onorous, from the Planning Commission. He said he sees the Planning Commission of the future as being the lead City Commission to work with the "CD" portion of the BCD to start developing the vision of where we go from here. The Comp Plan is supposed to be an evolving, living document and all the sub plans that relate to it are supposed to be malleable. He said to him, the Planning Commission's job is to be a group that can vision and start planning. He noted process that Mr. Timmons brought in for the Highway 20 plan, a whole new way of doing planning. He mentioned the Highway 20 plan in the wake ofI-695, the revisioning the town needs relative to its entrance; for multiple entrances which will defmitely have a positive or negative effect; whether or not we are going to have a neighborhood structure; how do we enhance neighborhood function; how do we protect neighborhoods. He envisioned the role of the Planning Commission as sponsoring citizen task forces, with Staff, to help create that "CD," community development, portion of the whole equation. It goes along with what Mr. Worden and Mr. Mandelbaum discussed with him~ it makes sense. How else can we get the advice unless we get funnels to channel public opinion, and he referred to the Planning Commission as a body that exists under statute to plan and create order out of that chaos. Mr. Mandelbaum said that is the most significant thing they have heard. He said he is very enthusiastic about the Hearings Examiner approach, and agrees in principle with everything Mr. Masci said. He stated a concern that as Staff constricts, and the challenge of government is more difficult as resources disappear and demands increase, it becomes important to plan more intelligently and more creatively. The Staff becomes less and the Planning Commission is a volunteer group. His concern is about how that all meshes. He said he fully agrees that is the direction they should go. Mr. Masci said, alluding to Staff reductions, they had one FTE reduction of Staff in the building section. In the Building and Community Development section, there have not been any Staff reductions. He said one of the things they want to discuss in their work plan is the fact that long range planning needs to take place. He suggested this is the citizen's conduit for long range planning~ this is not an exercise in futility - it is an excersie in necessity. Other comments and suggestions followed: . Planning Commission Minutes January 13, 2000 Page 8 · ~ Mr. Finnie stated that the for the last 2 years, the first years following the adoption of the Comprehensive Plan, the Planning Commission has been behind the power curve for the next year's changes to the Comprehensive Plan. He said one thing this Council can do is, by talking to the Planning Commission, find some way to simplify that process. Suggestion: 1) This Council find a way that the Comp Plan process consume less of the Planning Commission's time -- how to do it other than talk. 2) Get the Hearings Examiner program underway. 3) Maybe working with the Planning Commission to review their mission statement so its focus is on the planning process. Maybe we have some general understanding as to what our priorities are, and we review and update them on an annual basis. He further suggested maybe they can help by working together, and maybe the liasion is the person to work with the Planning Commission to come back with thoughts to present to Council, of their ideas on streamlining the process to make the Comp Plan amendment process simpler and maybe intereact with the Planning Commission in additional quasi- judicial matters on exactly what critical planning issues the Planning Commission anticipates to come before us. He suggested maybe there should be a semi-annual work session, a dialog between the the City Council and Planning Commission. Mr. Worden replied that those are very welcome comments. He said he could imagine that, given resources Mr. Mandelbaum mentioned, one of the biggest charges to the Planning Commission would be to decide which are the most critical issues we can afford to take the time to deal with this year. He thought probably that is one of the things they have the qualifications to do. Ms. Thayer said they need direction from the City Council. · Mr. Masci said Mr. Timmons is trying to get the City Council to do the same thing, get a work plan and prioritize that so they can at least get the first five or six things done on the work plan for the year. He said possibly the Council work plan could influence the Planning Commission work plan. Ms. Erickson added that the Council's work plan sets the Planning Commission work plan. ~ Mr. Rambo said he thinks those are all good ideas and indicated things pop up and are hot issues for the month or quarter, and they dwindle and something else emerges. Suggestion: . Overlay plans for various districts in the City that should compliment each other rather than conflict with each other; he noted the change in the City Attorney's office, a change in the form of government, and they still have these plans sitting out there that really don't quite mesh with the Comp Plan or with each other. He indicated there are things that fall outside of the policy realm that take a lot of Council time. He felt it worthwhile to talk more · Planning Commission Minutes January 13,2000 · Page 9 frequently and have a shared vision of work planing, knowing that things that surface will need to be dealt with, leaving time for those as well. Suggestion: · Mr. Finnie said maybe the fIrst of their two joint work sessions, following adoption of the City Council work plan, Council hand off to the Planning Commission their priorities and work projects that involve the Planning Commission. · · Mr. Mandelbaum said he envisioned, in addition to being more efficient and getting the priorities straight we are talking about, that there are other tools government could use in the planning process that he thinks could help. He said during the Port of Port Townsend hearing he. could have envisioned a pro-active role on the part of the City, Mr. Crockett stating they had considered a series of more technological fixes and options that were being thrown around, e.g. digging deeper, etc. He said he would have felt more comfortable had the City assigned somebody that could spend a lot of time with the Port looking at those options, that with a mix of dialog with Staff there possibly might have been a more creative solution. He cited issues that came up during the year where mediated processes or cooperative processes might have worked for the community, e.g. Cook Avenue with a decent developer and a concerned community. Suggestion: Possibly the City or even members of the Planning Commission could be assigned to work with people to facilitate less volitile, less adversarial situations, more cooperative situations. After further discussion Mr. Mandelbaum said he did not suggest a budget item. He said he knows how those tools are used and knows there are people who could be engaged, whether in City Staff or volunteers or they are commissioned to do that job at no cost. · Mr. Masci indicated rather than facilitated dialog, in terms of their communication: Suggestion: Have a seminar to learn how to use tools, LIDs, PUDs, etc. to all be on the same page. During discussion Mr. Finnie explained that as a City Council they are faced a lot of things to get done. He said they are going to do those fast, and that the Council will need Staff information and Planning Commission input. He pointed out that meetings regarding such issues as Land Use and Economic Development will be hostile meetings. Chair Thayer indicated she is hearing City Council is going to have a work session and will get back to the Planning Commission. Mr. Masci replied they will have something within the next 60 days. · Planning Commission Minutes January 13,2000 Page 10 · Chair Thayer reiterated the Planning Commissions concerns have not been the Council's decisions, that is their right, but it is the process. Mr. Harbison felt their constituants should know; Mr. Finnie responded that as one Councilmembr he would address the Findings of Fact and face that. Ms. Thayer said the Planning Commission would appreciate that, and that would be fair to the public. Appreciation for the dialog was expressed. VII. Other Business Mr. Randall suggested the next scheduled Planning Commission meetings (January 27, February 10 and 24) would be a good time to review and work on revamping the Comprehensive Plan. VII. Other Business Next Scheduled Meetings January 27, 2000 February 10, 2000 February 24,2000 · VIII. Communications - There were none. IX. Adjournemnt Motion to adjourn the meeting was made by Mr. Mandelbaum and seconded by Ms. Erickson. All were in favor. The meeting adjourned 8:35 p.m. Cindy Thayer, Chair 1U~ Sheila Avis, Minute Taker ·